The Pakistani soldiers sent to ‘liberate’ Bangladesh were under orders to purify the country by impregnating the Bengali women with “muslim fetuses.”
The woman in the photo may have been fortunate in that someone for some reason appears to be trying to save her.
The Pakistan military set up ‘rape camps’ in which women were serially raped for months to both degrade their culture and for troop morale. The women who survived the rape camps were considered defiled and without status. Many were killed.
Here as in East Timor we have proof positive of muslims conducting genocide in the modern era, but only Israel and America are bad.
Next: The Rape of Nanking.

Oh yea and one more thing – Down With The Patriarchy!
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ST, now that I can *breathe* again…You want us to learn? You want us to be shaken out of complacency? You want us to take ownership of the human capacity for brutality – in an area hidden from our awareness? (Incidentally, the Chaps sees – and feels – a reversed Pieta of horror.)
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I want to “Win the Peace.”
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OK…Reminders of what happens when a vacuum is left behind when safety and civil society are not supported; something that could fairly-easily have been done….Or am I way off, as usual?
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Not even in the ballpark.
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OK, bring me along to where you are…You know this has been, and is, important to me.
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Are you suggesting that the British empire is the root cause?
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Not anywhere near that specific; just recalling discussions of what can happen when the action that has been stabilizing stops, and arbitrary lines are drawn by people nowhere near the fray. Not to mention what havoc unrestrained/unredeemed human nature can and will do…(Hoping these nest properly.)
[P. S. I’m getting used to new seating position in a different wheelchair today; thanks for keeping my mind off it.]
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Hopkirk’s “The Great Game” – illustrating a tendency to play national/ethnic/religious groups off of one another admixed with the usual ‘Indigenous Peoples Day’ goo at this time of year – sort of guided my thoughts, too.
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Who suggested that book to you?
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“Who suggested that book to you?”
You did; and I learned a lot.
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You are way too smart for me. Can you break this down Barney style por favor mai krap?
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“Playing groups off each other” – Muslim/Hindu, Sunni/Shia, Kurds vs. Everybody. “Indigenous Peoples’ Day” – The latest chapter in “white guilt”, around Columbus *and* the Puritans: As Mom P. used to say: “Hasten, Jason, get the basin!”
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You should do a book review here. Some of our gentle readers would surely be benefited by that.
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Will look over the existing one – and see if I’ve learned more since…It is mine, after all. (smile)
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Sounds fantastic. Less work for you.
Truly I am being selfish because I forgot already most of what I learned from that brilliant author.
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Thanks for the go-ahead! I also have access to “Setting the East Ablaze”; maybe I’ll see where they dovetail. As well, I am more than infuriated by our genius at not working things out – where they’ll probably end – before we put lives on the line. Anyway….
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I was unaware of this atrocity, and a lot of other people are too. I suppose you have to be unaware of many things in order to call Islam a “religion of peace”.
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No question, JaC….
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The name of the operation becomes ironic.
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What’s the next step on the journey to learning, ST? Or did JaC get there already?
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How about you telling the rest of the class where you think it should go?
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Simon to CodeTalker. Which genius – over
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“Genius”
Ironically and generally applicable to us and/or allies partners who have gotten really good at snatching defeat and fragmentation from the jaws of victory…Opinion that I’d be more than happy to be talked out of, ST.
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That may not be the generally agreed upon meaning of that word; nevertheless, thank you so much.
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I agree that Islam (a strategy for conquest, rape, and pillage – not a religion) is our current “fly in the ointment”, but – as your last line in the OP re: the atrocities in Nanking (I already wrote “rape’ once.) There, but for the grace of God, and Judeo-Christian moral teaching – when adhered to – goes a conquering force. How do we make this less possible?….Your ironically-named strategy is a saving-grace, ST.
Settling in, back soon….
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Nanda, I am not just talking when I say that you are incredibly smart: you are effing brilliant, and I very much want to know what you think and what your perspective is, but as it stands right now, I have no idea, and it’s frustrating. It does sometimes seem like you are speaking in a different language, and sometimes, like right now, it becomes frustrating, because I want to know what you are saying and I don’t.
Could you simplify the language a little? I really want to know what you think, because I know that I would learn so much from you if I did 🙂
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Here goes, JaC: Simon’s viscerally affecting post got me thinking – and feeling – not only about Bangladesh, East Timor, all of the current sandbox, but about Nanking, My Lai, etc. Thinking about how men (and women) in strategic and foreign policy positions often make world-shaping decisions on paper: drawing borders, relocating people, in such sterile, comfortable environments, that the unforeseen consequences escape their notice – wittingly or unwittingly.
When you work as though you’re at a game board of “Risk”, you’re actually playing pinball, with no clue as to what the situation will look like when the game ends. When you try to pit ideologies/cultures/regions against each other for your own conscious (or subconscious) ends, then express shock when it blows up in your face – whoever you are – I say: “Welcome to the real world, Sweetcakes.”
I’m not sure if I full-on agree with: “You broke it, you buy it.” For me, it’s getting to: “Try not to frickin’ break it in the first place!” Simon’s worldly-wise and compassionate “Winning the Peace” plan would work in nearly any environment in which it’s genuinely tried, because it gets its hands dirty; and is willing to let its heart be opened, too. It recognizes people – not just as means to an end – but as ends in themselves. Whew! That’s that….
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Thank you, Nanda 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 You are far better read on this topic than I am, and I am more than a little out of my depth here, but I do understand what you are saying, and it’s awesome to understand what you are saying 🙂 I love the simple, direct voice you had in your last comment: very, very cool 🙂
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Most welcome, ma’am….Often, I think aloud in pixels; you and ST are great helps in reaching my desired point.
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I would love to read your book review of “The Great Game”: I have never read that book, and won’t be able to anytime soon, but if you could provide the Cliff Notes, lol, I would very much appreciate it 🙂
P.S. you read so many books, it would be great to read your ideas about any or all of the books you read, whether you think they are worth reading, etc…. 🙂
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Bookworm’s Corner, I’ll take it under advisement, JaC….Thank you!
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Very much appreciate your much-too-kind words, JaC…I’ll try to retrace my steps – for myself as well as for you, wait one? Please and thank you….
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“I agree that Islam (a strategy for conquest, rape, and pillage – not a religion) …”
Why do I feel alone in my total agreement here? Are people just that ignorant or naive?
As we all know from my infamous confrontation in a SW Floridian restaurant, I will not tolerate the presence of Muslim women sheathed in black Halloween costumes. I just can’t. One might as well walk in with a swastika tattoo or a white hood. I don’t want to live amidst these types.
Even though I should (?) defend their right to express, I’ll also defend my right to keep them off my expensive turf.
Thoughts?
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I believe that holy-hell rained down upon me the first time that I wrote Islam is a satanic cult. You are not alone but we are far-far too few. It does feel as if some few Americans are beginning to come to their senses regarding Islam being a plot hatched by the Devil himself. Primarily due to the sheer number of mohammedans, folks cannot sort it out for themselves that this is unrighteous at best, if not satanic cult.
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You are my heroine forever for the brave stand you took in that restaurant. I probably wouldn’t have had the guts to do what you did, but I agree with what you did 1000%.
Islam is incompatible with Democracy, and as Simon often points out, it isn’t really a religion, or if it is, it is an evil religion. During the Cold War, we made a real effort to keep communists out of America. We should be making the same effort with Muslims. At the very least, extremist Muslims such as the types who wear burkas, or demand that their wives wear burkas should know that they aren’t the only ones who have a right to express themselves.
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That was one of the nicest responses I’ve ever received for my aggressive behavior. Thanks so much, Judy!
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We are territorial and tribal creatures for a reason. I like to call it survival.
I grew up in a ‘black and white’ world, and everybody got along for the most part. It is cultural suicide to ‘import’ mohammedans as Hillary’s State Dept did.
My friends and I have decided that Progs do not take the long view. It is always, only and all about ‘the now’ for them.
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(Not sure where this comment will land.)
Liz, re: women in full burqa in the wider community: It’s a signal that assimilation (i.e. separation of mosque and state) is not acceptable to the wearer. It’s confrontational by design, so I’m fine with your response to that, also.
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P.S. The nonbelievers who pushed back against my satanic cult classification of Islam are/ were all members in good standing of R> Un-effing-believable!
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Maybe they don’t get it because we say “Islam is evil” and they hear “All Muslims are evil”? It seems to be that what I am about to say goes without saying, but for a lot of people, it probably needs to be said: Islam is evil. Most Muslims are not evil. Most Muslims are exactly like every other human being on earth: we are all struggling within the cultures and societies that we were born into that we didn’t ask to be born into. We are all just trying to deal with our sordid ancestors and the sordid legacy they left us with. But some of us have been luckier with our ancestors than others.
We have all been brainwashed in some way or another, to one extent or another, and Muslims are no different in that respect. Most of those who believe that Sharia law should take precedence over the U.S. Constitution are not evil people. They have been brainwashed by an evil ideology, but they are not themselves evil, but I don’t care. If their political loyalties are to anything other than the U.S. Constitution, then they shouldn’t be here.
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In my opinion one can not be a Muslim and respect our Constitution. There is no cirling of that square FULL STOP
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ST, what about someone like Dr. Zuhdi Jasser, MD (USN, Ret.) and those in the organizations he’s founded, to combat Islamo-Fascism? I know they’re now a minority, but they are there. He and Ayaan Hirsi-Ali Ferguson are putting their lives on the line. (It seems we’ve stopped listening/supporting them….Sad.)
We need to start having more kids in stable heterosexual families, if we’re going to turn the demographics around, for sure.
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And one more thing, as you may have thought about when looking at that heinous photo, the girls and women in the Rape Camps were starving to death while the Pakistan soldiers were continuously raping them. The babies born alive were not healthy.
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Thank you, ET, for having the guts to do what you did, you are so awesome 🙂
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“One cannot be a Muslim and respect our Constitution”
I would say, one cannot be a Muslim who takes Islam seriously and respect our Constitution. As with any religion, surely there must be at least some “Muslims” who are Muslim in name only-given the serious dangers of leaving Islam, there are probably more than just some, and I assume that such “Muslims” account for at least a percentage of Muslims who say in secret surveys that they prefer the Constitution to Sharia law. Be that as it may, having people in a free society who are in any way trapped within an an ideology that hates freedom is problematic: Muslims who are already here and have already become citizens are our fellow citizens, and we must deal with them in as loving a way as possible, and also in as direct a way as possible. We shouldn’t mince words about what we think of their “religion”.
Muslims who are already here and citizens have rights: we should not be importing more Muslims, but then, I don’t really think we should be importing anybody at this point in time. My late husband was an immigrant, and he taught me so much about what it means to be an American: Robin loved America with every breath in his body, and like many of us who were born here, he noticed that too many immigrants don’t seem to love America with every breath in their bodies. I am thinking here not only of Muslims who want to impose Sharia law, but also of Mexicans who show up at rallies waving the Mexican flag and demanding American citizenship. Robin saw these things, and he was totally cool with shutting immigration down for while. Some will say that he was a hypocrite because he was an immigrant himself, but the great thing about Robin was, he paid no attention to people like that. Those who would suggest that Robin didn’t have a right to the opinion he took also believe that no American has a right to take that opinion, because, as we are so often reminded, 99% of us are descended from immigrants. I don’t care. People can call me a hypocrite all they want: I.don’t.care.
I am totally cool with immigrants who love America. Nowadays, too many of them don’t.
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Yes, I was referring to ‘practicing’ Mohammedans.
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I am sorry, I wasn’t really responding to what you were saying, it was more like, I was responding to what some people would say that you were saying, and you got caught in the crossfire. I really need to reflect more before I start running my mouth 😦
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Not to worry Mate.
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I need to stretch out, try to relax, and sleep, folks. Getting used to a different seat/set of wheels has sorta kicked my six. (I know: “Suck it up, Petunia!”) Later gaters, Peace…Out.
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Good night, Nanda 🙂
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It was, indeed, a good night, JaC; ready to take on another day! I am in da house!
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P.S. I, of course, know that: “Suck it up, Petunia!” would have been said with brotherly affection, and that “grunt candy” – in my case, Aleve – works wonders. Still working out the kinks a bit today, but ready to roll.
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“I know they’re now a minority, but they are there. He and Ayaan Hirsi-Ali Ferguson are putting their lives on the line.”
Nanda, AHA has always been a personal heroine of mine; I’ve read all of her books and even met her at a speech she gave in NYC. She has been my number one influence on the topic of Islam because she lived through its horrors and was brave enough to talk about it. I admire her more than anyone!
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Agreed, but isn’t Ayaan Hirsi Ali an atheist?
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Yes, she is. Read one of her books Judy and you’ll empathize with her decision. She went through it all- genital mutilation, arranged marriage, beatings and shunning. Her atheism was not, in my opinion, an unusual reaction to a childhood of terror. ):
But she writes and talks consistently of the beauty and the power of the great Western philosophers who were often Christians themselves so I believe she is profoundly moved by our religious principles.
P.S. You should read about her experience at her first Western wedding in her book Infidel, I believe? She couldn’t get over that men and women were sitting together in the church, the bride and groom held hands and kissed one another after the ceremony and that the wedded couple had actually seen and gotten to know each other beforehand! It’s almost humorous…
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JaC, Ayaan Hirsi-Ali *calls* herself an ‘atheist’, as do many non-observant/secularist people; but she admires the unique way in which America emphasizes personal autonomy, freedom of speech/conscience, separation of mosque-synagogue-church and state in our founding documents, as Liz has said. She’s also at the forefront – with Dr. Zuhdi Jasser – of a movement to strip Islam of its tribal roots and bring it into the 21st century.
Since there’s no over-arching doctrinal authority in Islam, this could, theoretically, be done. Christian thought has definitely undergone this process through 2 millennia-plus. It would be a part of the goal of returning to life in America – and the West – to September 10, 2001. ST has said that this is the desired end-state of “Winning the Peace”. (Where’s that trademark symbol?)
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Good point Nanda, but perhaps AHA isn’t a true secularist and doesn’t know it! All the ideas you mentioned in which she believed have Christian roots.This is precisely why I stopped identifying as a secularist, read a little more history about some of our Framers and realized I was a Deist instead!
I can’t help myself- I am attracted to labels sometimes because they help explain mysteries. 🙂
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I am totally cool with atheists, deists, any and all belief systems that have a live and let live attitude 🙂
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So we have one Muslim man, Dr. Jasser, at the forefront of changing the way the billions of mohammedans interpret the Koran. That does not sound like much of a ‘movement’ to me.
No, theoretically or in real life it cannot be done because Islam is immutable.
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(I’ll get you links for Jasser’s work/involvements when I’m on the desktop computer), but, since when is a political ideology immutable? As for religions, we’re both aware of development in St. Paul’s thoughts on when Christ would return, whether Christians should marry. The church has changed its thought about slavery’s place in Christian life, for instance. You’ve spent enough time at our friend in Ballmer’s table to know that authentic faith has no fear of questions.
I guess I don’t consider Salafism worthy of being referred to as a religion; I fault our State Dept., et al. for deferring to a racist, anti-American bunch like CAIR, while shutting out AFID [American Foundation for Islam and Democracy]. The squeamishness of officialdom is contemptible.
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This probably won’t land where I want it to, but here’s the link to Dr. Jasser’s current work that I promised overnight: https://aifdemocracy.org/
The Wiki stuff paints him as a tool and a “sock puppet”, so it’s not worth anyone’s bandwidth.
Be back after online Mass; taking everyone with me: “O Come, O Come, Emmanuel” (favorite Advent carol.)
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Me too Judy; I only insist on living by Commandments #4-10. Why you do so doesn’t matter as much.
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Re: 10 Commandments: I’m down with that, Liz, 1-3 can supply the fuel to live out 4-10, just sayin’.
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You’re not the first to remind me of that Nanda and I respect your beliefs. As the ultimate pragmatist (albeit with a conscience), I find it easier to believe in 4-10 because they do encourage a happier, more productive life.
I’m a bit of an outlier because I believe in right and wrong… just because.
BTW ST, give yourself a pat on the back for providing such an open forum and attracting all these smart people. I feel privileged to join such a group.
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Can’t disagree with any of that, Liz; I very much miss the “civil religion” – common ethos, shared vision – that a holiday like Thanksgiving exemplifies (whether you date it to Ponce de Leon or the Puritans). That’s what conservatives need to *conserve*, yes?
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“….a live and let live attitude.”
Definitely, JaC….That’s the piece that the “We love death more than you love life.” crowd are missing, isn’t it?
(On a related note, JaC, there’s email for you, outside, from me…An interesting development has arisen.)
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A political ideology that is also both totalitarian and supremacist is immutable when ‘because god.’ Look at how many people have died in pursuit of a communist utopia when god was not even allowed to join in the fray. Well, when the leaders of a totalitarian ideology can say their ideology is perfect and that god commands it not be changed then it becomes immutable. Add to that a death penalty for apostates and heretics and it becomes even more immutable. The cherry on top is the doctrine of abrogation.
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Not quite ready to buy it, ST; when we had the spine/gonads for it, we defeated a thousand-year reign and an emperor thought to be a god – at the same time. I agree that we have not decided (yet) that it’s a war worth fighting, or a peace worth winning. But, if they love death that much, let’s give it to them. If they revere the myth (yay, Tom Holland) that they sprang fully-formed in a featureless desert from the mind of someone they call Mohammed, then let’s give them life in the 7th-century. The passivity/fatalism/anti-intellectualism that has covered them like a pall since al-Ghazali won his Pyrrhic victory (yay, Robert Reilly) has to lead nowhere. There are stress-cracks already – let’s exploit them: What in Hades are we so blamed afraid of?
Thanks for the space to rant….I’ll be back.
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I did not say they could not be bombed out of existence. I am saying that their so-called religion is immutable.
‘
Pretty sure that I introduced Mr. Holland to you. Can you introduce Mr. Reilly to us please?
I’ll take a shot at answering your question and if you have been paying close attention to my rants then you will know that the final answer is: A. Oil.
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You did, indeed, introduce me to Mr. Holland’s intriguing work on Islam’s roots – in the Fertile Crescent, not the Arabian desert – and its debt to Judaism (calendar and dietary laws) and to heretical Christianity (Jesus is God’s most-perfect *creation*, not the co-existent second Person of the Trinity [Hello, Arius!]) so, in some ways, it’s our mess.
In an exhaustive – and sort of exhausting book – “The Closing of the Muslim Mind”, Robert R. Reilly shows us that Islam has gone through its own developments to get to where it is. Their so-called religion (for its currently-most-vocal/visible adherents) may seem immutable because it ended up painting itself into a theological blind-alley through the work of Al Ghazali [1056-1111].
He was an Iranian, Sunni imam. who closed off intellectual exploration of Western philosophy [“because, God; and because Prophet has to be reverenced, as Prophet”] and development of doctrine in the Koran [“because, manifests the Divine, with no human mediation”] thus painting his school of Islam – in its dominance – into a doozy of a corner. He reduced theology to law and jurisprudence – because the human sphere is all we can access – and drove himself to suicide, because he couldn’t reach the union with God that he mystically sought, to the point of madness. Charming, yes?
Link to Reilly’s book below:
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Also, a link to Tom Holland’s “In the Shadow of the Sword”, which I’m still reading:
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BTW ST, give yourself a pat on the back for providing such an open forum and attracting all these smart people. I feel privileged to join such a group.
Thanks ET. Soon, God willing, there will be more intelligent voices among us here but without even a smidgen of that smug passive-aggressive hiding behind the skirts of the internet attitude on those ‘legacy’ sites.
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It sounds as if Mr. Reilly would agree with me then about the immutability of Islam. I agree they have only themselves to blame but the non-believers (see London and the young man’s life, so full of promise, snuffed out for simply being in the wrong place at the wrong time) are the ones paying the price.
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Granted, unfortunately….The maddening part of it is the intellectual, spiritual cowardice of it all: We abandoned geocentric theories of the universe for heliocentric ones – not easily, granted – in the face of evidence to the contrary – without abandoning faith. Heck, the Vatican has an official astronomer, and an observatory in Arizona. C’mon, Salafists, man up, for real. Take the puzzle apart, take out the purely-tribal parts that don’t fit, especially for girls and women – and reconstruct with the eternal truths – if there are actually any left to build with.
The thing ought to collapse by inertia alone. As to oil: Why aren’t we self- sufficient by now? And if Europa needs the oil, let her guard it.
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Because Orange Man and nuclear bad. Not to mention global cooling/warming/ climate change.
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Okay, but where does that leave us? With Augustine, awaiting the Vandals? Oh, wait….They’re 20-30-somethings -or 70-somethings who think like they’re 20 (or billionaires who’ll be carried out of office in a casket (on both sides of the aisle).
Where are the grown-ups?
Thanks be that: “[H]ere have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come.” Hebrews, Chapter 13, verse 14 (KJV)
This verse is becoming a theme for my approach to all things political, actually….It works better than Xanax. (Only halfway kidding.)
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P.S. Plus the enemy of my enemy. In other words Progs like mohammedans (for the moment).
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Take the puzzle apart, take out the purely-tribal parts that don’t fit, especially for girls and women – and reconstruct with the eternal truths – if there are actually any left to build with.
“If there were actually any left to build with” This is likely the crux of the problem.
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“This is likely the crux of the problem.”
And, when they reach that dilemma, we offer them what they should’ve had in the first place: Everything Al-Ghazali foreclosed. Western Civ. (which they’re part of) can be at their fingertips.
Query, ST, et al.: When did Wahhabism/Salafism become the sect-du-jour? The public face of Islam in the West? Since neither Holland, nor Reilly are concerned directly with this, it hasn’t shown up in my reading so far. Thanks!
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Nanda please to tell us where it leaves us?
Before you answer take under advisement that I tried my best to inform and/ or teach on both Ricochet and Ratburger. You may recall that my efforts only got me banned for life from both of those so-called Conservative blog sites.
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Hoping I don’t detect sarcasm here, ST….I genuinely don’t (for the first time in my adult life) know where it leads *us*. I’m not even clear on whether there *is* an “us” in the way that I felt as a child/teenager/collegian/new graduate. The “us” I know calls me something other than Nanda most of the time. I’m connected as sister, sister-in-law, aunt, great-aunt, parishioner, former colleague/classmate, and, finally, probably counting on the fingers of both hands – friend. In support of that, and of the wider world you’ve brought to me, I will always pray and – in the words of Douglas Murray – “live the life I lived yesterday” one day at a time. I will, as Micah the prophet says: “Act justly, love tenderly, and walk humbly” (Micah 6:8) before God, and among men. If that’s not your way – or anyone else’s – so be it.
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i was referring to this when I asked you to tell us where it leaves us. No sarcasm. I just don’t want to be ‘the point man’ on every patrol. Or at least explain your second question to us so I’ll know what it means.
Okay, but where does that leave us? With Augustine, awaiting the Vandals? Oh, wait….They’re 20-30-somethings -or 70-somethings who think like they’re 20 (or billionaires who’ll be carried out of office in a casket (on both sides of the aisle).
Where are the grown-ups?
Thanks be that: “[H]ere have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come.” Hebrews, Chapter 13, verse 14 (KJV)
This verse is becoming a theme for my approach to all things political, actually….It works better than Xanax. (Only halfway kidding.)
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YUP….You will have seen my further response. I don’t see any reason to deal with the political stuff on any level, but local, for the foreseeable. Quite a change for the “legacy site political junkie”. Nothing more, or less. (And I am smiling, as I write this.)
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As much fun as I’ve had today, it’s time to “go horizontal”, as my Dad would say. Thanks for the laughs, the mental and spiritual workout, and the Gui Fei cha. I’ll be at the corner table tomorrow for brunch. Chao for now y la paz sea contigo, hermano y hermanas.
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Am almost caught up w/Monday at the office – and am in da house…How’s everyone?
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Very interesting subject , thankyou for posting.
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Thank you Keitha.
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Thank you Mercedes. We would love to see you commenting more often.
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Pretty! This was an incredibly wonderful post. Many thanks for providing these details.
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